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I installed Debian 7.6.0 LXDE, today, on an EeePC 4G.
Installation went fine, 1.9GiB free space; but, when it came to configuring the network, there is nothing provided for mobile broadband. So I downloaded the relevant packages, on my Lubuntu system, and transferred them, but they cannot be installed.
Thanks, but no thanks: for the sake of a few KiB, users of mobile broadband have been ignored.
Well done, Debian developers, for disenfranchising some of your potential user base.
I really wanted to use this system, for refurbs, but I guess that isn’t going to happen.
Non-free iso is a solution…
You’re writing about “Debian/Iceweasel”:
“I’m always grateful to the readers who whitelist Desktop Linux Reviews in their ad blocker, it helps me keep the site running as I’m not a rich person.”
That’s something most People (like me) will understand and accept – so i did it this way and stopped ABP on your side.
But on 90 of the other sides i will shurly keep it….
Thanks very much, Achim. I appreciate it. I don’t blame you for using an ad blocker. Between the obnoxious ads and the irritating social media buttons, a lot of sites are just a royal pain to visit. Ugh.
Why are so many Wheezy packages unsigned?
Thanks for the review! I was able to install Debian 7.2 Gnome on my Macbook (Intel dual core). Used netinstaller. After installing I had to alter the following:
> touchpad scroll didnt work as “expected” – Luckily System settings > Mouse/Touchpad knocked this off
> wifi — https://wiki.debian.org/MacBook/Wireless fixed the wireless (check your wifi card first)
> Youtube videos still dont play on Iceweasel…looking into it.
everything else works out of the box!! Keep it up!!
“One thing I found distasteful was how an ad blocker was automatically installed in Iceweasel. When I opened Iceweasel, I got a confirmation that it was installed. I was not asked if I wanted it, it just appeared there without any input from me.”
When I installed Debian 7.1 on my laptop no addons whas installed in Iceweasel. It looks like they have changed this i 7.1 so that the ad blocker no longer automatically is installed in Iceweasel.
Thanks, Mikael. That’s good to know, and it makes sense.
Debian it´s the one that we choosed for our server at http://cryoair.com It´s a great distro we a lot of potencial
Does Debian7 + Gnome 3 have a problem with language layout switcher?
I am getting ready for Mint to ditch ubuntu base and switch to Debian 100%, I know it will happen eventually, so it is nice to see another stable release. One reason I avoid straight or mintified Debian is there are no PPAs so I can’t get the latest of any given program. I come from Gentoo, 10 years past, but after using it I just can’t used to outdated programs. When I have tried Debian in the past it was impossible to get 99% of the programs I used updated unless I compiled from source at which point why not use Gentoo? It is automated with emerge. I’m not even sure if there is a PPA system for Debian, it would be great if there was then all Debian based distros could use it making it easier for developers to package their software, they only need to package once. If only Canonical would go along with that then I bet Linux would grow 10 fold. . .
I loaded debian live(XFCE) on a usb key. When I tried(text mode) to install it, the installer that there is no CD in the CD drive. How can I get around this. I really don’t like wasting a DVD for that…
you may have to get a rewritable DVD that you can reuse after the installation.
The one good thing about Wheezy as the current Debian Stable is that it’s not boring at all or too dated yet. But instead of GNOME 3, I would use xfce, LXDE, or Enlightenment in an attempt to preserve some CPU power & RAM memory.
As for the infamous Iceweasel browser, I’ll purge it and install Chromium in a heartbeat. No big deal. : )
I like Chromium better too. I never could warm up to Iceweasel, and not just because of the ad blocker thing.
This article review of Debian 7 (Wheezy) was very much complete – in consideration for “Desktop” use, but was totally irrevelant and negligent in regard Debian’s considerable merits for Server implementation.
While Debian is very popular and suitable in the Server environment as well as client use throughout Europe, Asia, Southern Africa and South America, Linux users here in USA focus only on the “desktop” Linux, gee-whiz! scenario in thought competition to Microsoft Windows. A poor perspective of an excellent software technology.
I totally agree that the server stuff is very important. But this is “Desktop Linux Reviews” and not “Server Linux Reviews.”
Good point! When I have occasion to use servers, I have found Debian to be among the most stable servers around. However, on the job, I’ve only had one occasion to use Debian. All other times (including the present) it seems to be Red Hat Enterprise Linux, RHEL), which is also a good distribution. As the distribution itself goes, I like Debian. However, Fedora Hats off to Red Hat (and its development branch, Fedora. Since application vendors tend to standardize, their applications, when sensitive, tend to work and to be supported much more frequently by RHEL than anything else.
Fair is fair, though; this is not a SERVER review site, this site is called DESKTOP Linux Reviews and Desktop Linux Reviews Forum is a companion site.
The Debian 7 XFCE installer is pretty nice too. I got a nice system running in a VM right now as I try out Debian.
Congrats, XFCE is a great desktop.
I have been running Debian 7.0 w/KDE 4.8.4 for some time and it is very stable indeed. People who do not like Gnome 3 (and I do not) certainly have alternatives in KDE or Xfce, which I also have run quite successfully.
The IceXXX thing does not turn my crank one way or the other. The point is that in my experience they work. I’ll leave the political arguments to those who care about them.
One key to the Debian net-installer, which is dead-bang reliable in my experience: Read the Installation documentation! There is a short-form of that over on the Debian wiki that is very helpful for first-timers.
One final point: Do not expect the “latest and greatest” of anything. What you get in exchange for software that is a step or two behind the curve is a system that will work when you need to have it work. Fair trade in my opinion.
Stable is old and stable. User can switch to testing or unstable for newer stuff. Experiment is too new and dangerous.
I have a question for you foxbat…I’m kinda new to Debian and I understand when you say “do not expect the latest and greatest” as far as programs are concerned. However, would it be possibly to add other repositories or download the source code for more recent programs or does the kernel in Debian 7 prevent this from happening?
You can add the repositories you want, but the alternative versions of some programs may create conflicts (deb-multimedia, for example, is quite safe AFAIK).
You can also install whatever you want from source. Preventing that would be against the fundamental principles of free software.
Can you please clarify “I recommend steering clear of Iceweasel, Iceape, and Icedove”?
So do you recommend to use the nightly builds of the same IceXXX above of do you recommend to use rather the original ones (Firefox, Thunderbird)?
Well, I won’t flat out discourage any use of these Debian branded tools, except to comment that:
1. Their existence, to me, seems silly in the first place. Debian wanted to mess with the code in the browsers. First of all, provide patches back to the groups, why fork the code? They’ve broken it more than once.
2. A couple of years ago, there were even instances, admittedly isolated, where poor handling of hardware, in particular by the Iceweasel browser, in some extremely isolated cases reportedly led to monitor failure. Now that’s pretty rare, hardly ever heard of, but since it was divergent code in the first place, I just ask “Why”?
3. When you see Version 10.something in Iceweasel and Icedove, those are “Extended Support Releases” (ESR). I don’t know if Firefox and Thunderbird are still on Version 10 or something later for their ESR, but that is rather old.
No reason, especially on the desktop, not to use Firefox V20.0; that’s what is current.
As for Nightly Builds, they are not for everyone, but the Nightly Builds that I use are directly from the Mozilla Development FTP (File Transfer Protocol) site. So are the released versions. If you are not testing, get a released version, but the ones from the Mozilla site are more current, and usually more stable and up-gradable than the Debian Ice-versions.
I feel I need to correct you on point #1 – Debian has not forked the Mozilla projects you mention, they exist because of a dispute over trademark and licencing. Please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project
As you point out, there is nothing stopping anyone from installing the latest Mozilla Firefox (or Google Chrome) and benefit from the “in band” updates from Mozilla or Google directly. Personally I look past the rebranded stuff and have been using upstream versions with Debian for years.
Well, maybe the use of the term “fork” is too strong, but the Debian versions have more than just icon changes. The reason that Debian cannot use the Mozilla Firefox logos is that they are repackaging the distribution and also because the two projects have philosophical differences on the licensing. Notice that Ubuntu, for instance, a Debian-based distribution, still has Firefox packages?
1. They accept the Mozilla license and
2. They leave the code alone.
As I claimed, more than once Debian changed the code; that’s why they had to re-brand. If that’s not a “fork”, then what is the definition of a software fork? I say when you change the code, it’s forked. If you disagree, then provide your definition and substantiate it with reference to a well-recognized definition of a software fork.
Well maybe they are just fixing ‘bugs’ that the upstream people think are ‘features’
No; they are doing better lately, and barely diverging, except for the art work, but at a few key points in the past, they modified the browser code and broke it pretty badly; they thought they were fixing security issues and ended up breaking them worse, and having to back out.
Another really serious error was back in time where they changed some video driver stuff, presumably replacing “non-free” code with “free” code, but caused monitor failures.
I avoided most of this, and unfortunately, I cannot cite these things accurately, so I can retract them if they prove 100% untrue.
This, however, can be said: Iceweasel, Iceape, Icedove, and Iceowl lag their Mozilla equivalents. I therefore recommend simply downloading the Mozilla-branded versions and use their updating mechanisms instead; they work reliably and provide free Mozilla-based software that is free of charge and free to use and reuse.
Quote from the wikipedia article above:
“Further messages from Mike Connor clarified Mozilla’s new trademark policies: usage of the Firefox name is not allowed unless the rest of the branding is used and all of the browser’s changes are approved by Mozilla Corporation.
The immediate problem caused by the new policy was Debian’s inability to use the official Firefox logo due to its proprietary license failing to comply with the Debian Free Software Guidelines. Additionally, as Debian releases are frozen on a long-term basis, software in the frozen stable releases needs to be patched for any newly discovered security issue. Under the revised guidelines, in order to use the Firefox name, approval from the Mozilla Corporation would have been required for all security patches, but the Debian project felt it could not put its security in the hands of an external corporation in that manner.”
So leaving the code alone was not really an option as it would have clashed with the original way of doing security updates: the debian project only takes security updates from upstream but not feature updates, which (somewhat) ensures that the new bugs packed in with new features do not get into the stable release.
Of course, they could just package the upstream firefox as it comes out each time and shift responsibility for the security and bugs to the mozilla team, which would have been quite unprecedented in the history of debian.
Also, they absolutely could not use the firefox logo anyway because of the DFSG incompatibility.
The point is, they _had_ to make a choice as to whether they want to make things the debian way or the mozilla way, and chose the debian way even though the needed extra effort and possible shortcomings.
You don’t need to use the default ESR iceweasel. debian provides a repo to update to the latest iceweasel: http://mozilla.debian.net/
The repo also lets you use beta and aurora iceweasel.
Debian Wheezy (7.0) is perhaps the Debian project’s best release yet. The installer, chronically the weak spot, is still worlds better than it was in 2001 when I first learned Debian. In fact, back then, I was trying out an older version and the hardware support was so limited that I had to use a commercial Debian-based distro, the outstanding Libranet 1.9.1 for my first Debian system. These days, clumsy as it still is, the installation and configuration are superior to what they have been.
If you run the Debian text mode installation and do the same with Ubuntu, you will see the clear similarity. Debian has snagged a few (perhaps too few) tips from Ubuntu in the installation, but otherwise, it’s Ubuntu that takes from Debian, and without Debian, there would be about 250-300 fewer distributions available, and much of the technology we have would be limited. Even some of the alternative package managers in other distributions got the ideas from Ian Murdock’s original thoughts and efforts.
I recommend steering clear of Iceweasel, Iceape, and Icedove, the Debian-branded replacements for the Mozilla Firefox, Seamonkey, and Thunderbird browser, suite, and Email applications. I use both Nightly Builds and release builds. The Nightly Builds have defects 3-4 times a year, and I get the ones I am interested in fixed within 72 hours by providing well written defect reports. I hope you guys see decent RELEASED versions of these apps, but if not, why don’t you test them, write reports, and tell them what you expect? That’s how and why my systems always work; I QA the crap out of them and make sure the things I care about work, and they do.
I recommend Debian. For me, the netinst is the way to go. Why download a 4 GB DVD? Download a 40-60 MB image, then download the packages you want during installation. Takes slightly (but not much) longer. You’ll spend 1/2 hour to an hour downloading a big DVD unless you have a really fat network bandwidth. You can achieve a similar netinst installation time; a Live CD is an acceptable alternative; it works similar to the netinst but probably has a nicer looking interface, and you can run software while you are installing, so many may prefer that choice.
Great point about the netinst option, Brian. But you know me, I’m set in my ways when doing reviews. Heh.
Had you chosen a smaller build, you could have chosen LXDE, Xfce, KDE, or even a minimalist IceWM, Fluxbox, Openbox, or Enlightenment approach instead of that hmm… (forget the adjective) GNOME (choice?)
My Debian instance was built about four, maybe five, years ago now, taken from a custom instance of Debian Live that I was able to specify exactly what I wanted. So I ran it live, liked what I saw, installed it, converted it to Sid, then back filled home directories and other things I wanted to keep from previous systems and I’ve been using it ever since along with antiX Core as my two preferred – Debian Sid based systems!
I do sometimes download newer versions to check them out, but no reason to replace my good old system with the new ones; I just snag the new packages I want and I am done.